I forgot to add that this analysis might also be applied, possibly, to the 1997-2000 Outreau case in France, which has just been used as the basis for (what looks likes) another Netflix "true crime" whitewash. The trial was apparently sabotaged by the obviously guilty perps making very broad accusations of other community members, some of whom may well have been innocent, while others more likely were not. Children's accounts were also discredited for being too fantastic.
"The theme of the case, the high number of children recognized as victims, the potential murder of a child, as well as the number of adults indicted and kept in pre-trial detention made this case a national headline and gave rise to strong public criticism. The particularities of the trials of the Outreau affair made it a sensitive and controversial subject, while the words of the child victims have been misrepresented and not all those acquitted would be innocent. The Outreau affair caused distrust among young victims in France, with a 40% drop in child sexual assault convictions in the decade following the acquittal on appeal."
Thank you Jasun for this excellent exposure of their tricks and strategies. It has been so confusing to somehow know I faced these horrors as a child, but to have no memory of them-only the evidence of a derailed life. Your writing and books have been empowering and healing; I now have the clarity to see how further harm was created from their masks, mirrors, and diversions. My soul is strong, my courage grows.
Excellent piece. In respect to the smaller scale organized abuse and sacrifice, I would add for anyone reading that the process described needn't necessarily be conscious. It is certainly conscious in the organized defense of powerful rings like Epstein but this process plays out similarly among friend groups, in corporations, inside families etc. Note that the process being unconscious does not mean it's unintentional. Any experience with abusers will quickly teach that it DOES NOT MATTER whether the manipulative techniques are conscious or not. They are always intentional. When they no longer work to manipulate, abusers stop using them. for example, when police respond to a domestic violence call, the abuser doesn't throw a lamp. He waits until they leave. Serious discussions that hinge around whether some obviously manipulative thing was consciously meant to be manipulative are themselves part of the psyop.
the last point sounds like it could be a criticism of this piece, tho I understand why you make it; isn’t it also just human nature to want to try & distinguish lying from delusion?
I thought about this when I was writing the original comment as well. Yes and no. I specifically chose the word hinge because I think your piece doesn't actually hinge on whether the manipulative behavior was conscious. I understood your main point as 1. it could have been consciously orchestrated. 2. A criticism of the book for unjustly dismissing that possibly. I think I'm the context of your audience this is fine, even helpful. I really enjoyed the piece.
That said, the context of the discussion matters. If this piece was published in the Atlantic I would consider it part of the psyop because it would have the effect of dividing normies and starting a conflict over things like whether the therapist was conscious of his role in the cover up, diverting attention away from the fact that a bunch of organized pedophiles got away with it. The same effect happened with Epstein. What normies took away from that situation was that Epstein didn't kill himself, not that Epstein got away with it for several decades and everyone at the highest levels either activity participated or covered it up.
Lastly my comment was intented to focus on how the process also plays out in even more micro situations like work place narcissists, domestic abuse etc where the conversation often turns around whether "he or she really meant it." That discussion always works in the perpetrators favor as its nearly impossible to prove one way or the other and distracts from the important matter that the event occured.
that's a bizarre thought that if the article appeared in the Atlantic it would somehow be transformed into psyop-disinfo; "context is everything" is maybe another way of saying "the medium is the message"? The main flaw in yr point however is it would never happen! Hypotheticals can also distort meaning, as well as clarify it, which is back to yr point: context is everything!
23 hrs ago·edited 23 hrs agoLiked by Jasun Horsley
Re: the tunnels, I hope you won't mind if I cut-and-paste some notes (from my NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET 2010 episode):
...as it turns out, the McMartin tunnels are very likely real as well—something confirmed by an FBI document that was declassified in 2019 but that was already revealed for the most part in 1990. The declassification is actually pretty interesting in itself, because the two pages pertaining to the McMartin case that were released by the FBI came inserted within a collection of declassified documents pertaining to the Finders case, which is one of these locus classicus cases for documented intelligence-protected child trafficking cults. It’s possible that it really was some “white hat” in the FBI who wanted to make a statement through the juxtaposition of the Finders and McMartin documents. The McMartin documents were part of a report compiled by Ted Gunderson, a retired FBI agent who had once been the head of the Los Angeles FBI office. Gunderson was hired, in 1990, by I think about 50 of the McMartin parents to investigate claims of the tunnels, since the absence of evidence for the tunnels had been used with some effectiveness by the defense to discredit the accusations. Gunderson had been involved in COINTELPRO in the 60s, and I’ve actually wondered at times if he’s not a disinfo agent, but, by all appearances at least, he devoted himself in his later years to exposing Satanism and pedophilia in the deep state. For example, he was involved in investigating the Franklin scandal and interviewed Paul Bonacci, one of the victims who revealed the whole Monarch mind-control conspiracy and many of its methods….
But whatever you may think of Gunderson, in 1990, when the McMartin parents hired him, he actually called on the services of a UCLA archaeologist by the name of E. Gary Stickel to investigate the tunnel claims. Excavations were performed in some of the spots where Stickel thought the tunnels had been backfilled, and he indeed found evidence of this. The debunkers turned, not to an archaeologist, but to a forensic psychologist named W. Joseph Wyatt, to try to argue that the so-called tunnels were just old garbage pits. The problem is that, at a depth of about four feet, where Stickel detected the tunnels, they turned up items like a Disney bag with “copyright 1982” on it, proving that it wasn’t just an “old” garbage pit. Near this, they found a plate with a hand-drawn unicursal pentagram and an abundance of butchered animal bones, lending credence to the children’s accounts of animal sacrifices performed to terrify them. (By the way, the kids also reported that they were threatened that their parents would be murdered if they talked. The first parent to come forward died under mysterious circumstances—supposedly she drank herself to death—just before the first trial.) Gunderson also found—and this is in the recently declassified FBI documents as well—Gunderson discovered an alarm system within the preschool with alarms hooked up in every classroom but not wired to the fire station; it was an internal alarm system activated by an on/off switch. Also, one of the classrooms that accessed the tunnels had no doorknob on it.
Occasionally we hear about a small handful of the McMartin children who recanted their stories, but what they don’t mention is that the other 400 or so kids—and this is just one series of related cases in California, mind you—these kids have never recanted, as far as I know. As for some of the more fantastical-sounding details in some of their reports: to me, not all of it sounds so improbable (for example, that celebrities and public officials took part in some of the abuse). That actually makes a great deal of sense to me. But what about things like kids saying they were flushed down toilets into the basement tunnels where they were abused? One thing to remember—that’s also consistently omitted from mainstream, blue-pill synopses of McMartin—is that many of the children reported being dosed with a red or pink liquid that made them sleepy.
the whole thread above is probably worth a skim. Gunderson was I think almost indisputably a disinfo agent, or at least pretty much all the researchers i respect seem to think so; but as we know, that doesn’t mean all the info he was peddling was bad, on the contrary.
I also wonder about Nick Bryant, despite the apparent good work, based on a) his close affiliation with Peter Levenda; b) that he ghosted me, having agreed to do a podcast, after a preliminary phone chat, & right about the time I challenged Levenda for his denials of ritual abuse; c) his affiliation with Kris Milligan’s Trine Day, a likely disinfo hub.
This raises the broader question of how much this material has been shaped & spun as a means to control a narrative that cannot be suppressed. “Monarch” may be an example, not a term I ever use unless referencing someone else’s work, as it seems too firmly entrenched w/in conspiratainment 2nd Matrix field.
I never wrote or spoke about Tavistock either, until my own independent research uncovered so much evidence, 100% separate from all the Larouchian, Henry Makow-style citation free claims, or a crap-meister researcher like Danny Estulin (Trine Day again).
Alarm system detail is v. interesting - had not heard before
Yes, agreed that Gunderson must be "handled with care." Any time the clandestine world spills out into the open, disinfo operatives and related spooksters will "show up at the crime scene." I'm beginning to realize that this is part of what the Process Church was about: certainly it was connected to the clandestine world of British intelligence and politics (through leader Mary Ann MacLean, directly connected to the Profumo scandal), but their deliberately inserting themselves into cases of spillover (e.g., the Manson murders) is to a great extent about muddying the water, I believe.
In a previous life, I worked with children in care. That experience affirmed my long-held suspicion that, generally speaking, while those who speak for society claim that said society values children, it really doesn't.
Thanks for reopening this can of worms, Jasun. You know I try to at every reasonable opportunity to do so myself.
Just a little footnote: Convicted pedophile Hollywood director Victor Salva found his victim while working at a daycare in the San Francisco area in the 80s, probably not far from the Presidio, where Col. Michael Aquino was conducting SRA Monarch experiments on children (many of whom were able to describe the inside of his residence in detail and even knew his wife's nickname). How many post-60s "sexually liberated" pedophiles were doing this in that era in particular? In a premium episode (which I can send you), I discuss Salva and his relationship to Francis Ford Coppola., who "discovered" him and defended him at every turn, including suing his victim for lost revenue while the victim had to go over to Coppola's house to record dialogue on the film directed by his abuser, with Coppola telling him that his career is over. Salva molested both of the young boys in the film, CLOWNHOUSE. The older brother is played by Sam Rockwell. The younger boys never worked again; Rockwell is a famous movie star.
As both the embedded link ('UNESCO attempt to legalize the sexual "instruction" of infants') & works like, 'The Queering of American Children' (Lancing & Lindsay), demonstrates/describes, if the current trajectory in education/social engineering continues unabated then more likely than not, in the near future, the purveyors and perpetrators of paedophilia will be declassified as paraphilic; and, thereby, deemed no more abnormal than today's boomer man having a sexual desire for an 18 year-old female. RGB-Y4 out!!
I repeat that the only way to counter this is to bring back the DEATH PENALTY and apply it to lot more crimes crooked politicians immediately come to my mind also politicos involved in serious misleading of the public should be included.
I forgot to add that this analysis might also be applied, possibly, to the 1997-2000 Outreau case in France, which has just been used as the basis for (what looks likes) another Netflix "true crime" whitewash. The trial was apparently sabotaged by the obviously guilty perps making very broad accusations of other community members, some of whom may well have been innocent, while others more likely were not. Children's accounts were also discredited for being too fantastic.
"The theme of the case, the high number of children recognized as victims, the potential murder of a child, as well as the number of adults indicted and kept in pre-trial detention made this case a national headline and gave rise to strong public criticism. The particularities of the trials of the Outreau affair made it a sensitive and controversial subject, while the words of the child victims have been misrepresented and not all those acquitted would be innocent. The Outreau affair caused distrust among young victims in France, with a 40% drop in child sexual assault convictions in the decade following the acquittal on appeal."
A supposed "partial judicial error led to provisional detentions between 2001 and 2004." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outreau_case
This happened exactly congruent with the Dutroux affair in Belgium (1989, then 1996-2004), as if by design (and d'Outreau = Dutroux).
Thank you Jasun for this excellent exposure of their tricks and strategies. It has been so confusing to somehow know I faced these horrors as a child, but to have no memory of them-only the evidence of a derailed life. Your writing and books have been empowering and healing; I now have the clarity to see how further harm was created from their masks, mirrors, and diversions. My soul is strong, my courage grows.
Thanks; very glad whenever I hear it has been helpful to those more directly affected.
Excellent piece. In respect to the smaller scale organized abuse and sacrifice, I would add for anyone reading that the process described needn't necessarily be conscious. It is certainly conscious in the organized defense of powerful rings like Epstein but this process plays out similarly among friend groups, in corporations, inside families etc. Note that the process being unconscious does not mean it's unintentional. Any experience with abusers will quickly teach that it DOES NOT MATTER whether the manipulative techniques are conscious or not. They are always intentional. When they no longer work to manipulate, abusers stop using them. for example, when police respond to a domestic violence call, the abuser doesn't throw a lamp. He waits until they leave. Serious discussions that hinge around whether some obviously manipulative thing was consciously meant to be manipulative are themselves part of the psyop.
the last point sounds like it could be a criticism of this piece, tho I understand why you make it; isn’t it also just human nature to want to try & distinguish lying from delusion?
I thought about this when I was writing the original comment as well. Yes and no. I specifically chose the word hinge because I think your piece doesn't actually hinge on whether the manipulative behavior was conscious. I understood your main point as 1. it could have been consciously orchestrated. 2. A criticism of the book for unjustly dismissing that possibly. I think I'm the context of your audience this is fine, even helpful. I really enjoyed the piece.
That said, the context of the discussion matters. If this piece was published in the Atlantic I would consider it part of the psyop because it would have the effect of dividing normies and starting a conflict over things like whether the therapist was conscious of his role in the cover up, diverting attention away from the fact that a bunch of organized pedophiles got away with it. The same effect happened with Epstein. What normies took away from that situation was that Epstein didn't kill himself, not that Epstein got away with it for several decades and everyone at the highest levels either activity participated or covered it up.
Lastly my comment was intented to focus on how the process also plays out in even more micro situations like work place narcissists, domestic abuse etc where the conversation often turns around whether "he or she really meant it." That discussion always works in the perpetrators favor as its nearly impossible to prove one way or the other and distracts from the important matter that the event occured.
that's a bizarre thought that if the article appeared in the Atlantic it would somehow be transformed into psyop-disinfo; "context is everything" is maybe another way of saying "the medium is the message"? The main flaw in yr point however is it would never happen! Hypotheticals can also distort meaning, as well as clarify it, which is back to yr point: context is everything!
Re: the tunnels, I hope you won't mind if I cut-and-paste some notes (from my NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET 2010 episode):
...as it turns out, the McMartin tunnels are very likely real as well—something confirmed by an FBI document that was declassified in 2019 but that was already revealed for the most part in 1990. The declassification is actually pretty interesting in itself, because the two pages pertaining to the McMartin case that were released by the FBI came inserted within a collection of declassified documents pertaining to the Finders case, which is one of these locus classicus cases for documented intelligence-protected child trafficking cults. It’s possible that it really was some “white hat” in the FBI who wanted to make a statement through the juxtaposition of the Finders and McMartin documents. The McMartin documents were part of a report compiled by Ted Gunderson, a retired FBI agent who had once been the head of the Los Angeles FBI office. Gunderson was hired, in 1990, by I think about 50 of the McMartin parents to investigate claims of the tunnels, since the absence of evidence for the tunnels had been used with some effectiveness by the defense to discredit the accusations. Gunderson had been involved in COINTELPRO in the 60s, and I’ve actually wondered at times if he’s not a disinfo agent, but, by all appearances at least, he devoted himself in his later years to exposing Satanism and pedophilia in the deep state. For example, he was involved in investigating the Franklin scandal and interviewed Paul Bonacci, one of the victims who revealed the whole Monarch mind-control conspiracy and many of its methods….
But whatever you may think of Gunderson, in 1990, when the McMartin parents hired him, he actually called on the services of a UCLA archaeologist by the name of E. Gary Stickel to investigate the tunnel claims. Excavations were performed in some of the spots where Stickel thought the tunnels had been backfilled, and he indeed found evidence of this. The debunkers turned, not to an archaeologist, but to a forensic psychologist named W. Joseph Wyatt, to try to argue that the so-called tunnels were just old garbage pits. The problem is that, at a depth of about four feet, where Stickel detected the tunnels, they turned up items like a Disney bag with “copyright 1982” on it, proving that it wasn’t just an “old” garbage pit. Near this, they found a plate with a hand-drawn unicursal pentagram and an abundance of butchered animal bones, lending credence to the children’s accounts of animal sacrifices performed to terrify them. (By the way, the kids also reported that they were threatened that their parents would be murdered if they talked. The first parent to come forward died under mysterious circumstances—supposedly she drank herself to death—just before the first trial.) Gunderson also found—and this is in the recently declassified FBI documents as well—Gunderson discovered an alarm system within the preschool with alarms hooked up in every classroom but not wired to the fire station; it was an internal alarm system activated by an on/off switch. Also, one of the classrooms that accessed the tunnels had no doorknob on it.
Occasionally we hear about a small handful of the McMartin children who recanted their stories, but what they don’t mention is that the other 400 or so kids—and this is just one series of related cases in California, mind you—these kids have never recanted, as far as I know. As for some of the more fantastical-sounding details in some of their reports: to me, not all of it sounds so improbable (for example, that celebrities and public officials took part in some of the abuse). That actually makes a great deal of sense to me. But what about things like kids saying they were flushed down toilets into the basement tunnels where they were abused? One thing to remember—that’s also consistently omitted from mainstream, blue-pill synopses of McMartin—is that many of the children reported being dosed with a red or pink liquid that made them sleepy.
FBI doc pics of tunnels here: http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23926&p=584958&hilit=mcmartin#p584958
the whole thread above is probably worth a skim. Gunderson was I think almost indisputably a disinfo agent, or at least pretty much all the researchers i respect seem to think so; but as we know, that doesn’t mean all the info he was peddling was bad, on the contrary.
I also wonder about Nick Bryant, despite the apparent good work, based on a) his close affiliation with Peter Levenda; b) that he ghosted me, having agreed to do a podcast, after a preliminary phone chat, & right about the time I challenged Levenda for his denials of ritual abuse; c) his affiliation with Kris Milligan’s Trine Day, a likely disinfo hub.
This raises the broader question of how much this material has been shaped & spun as a means to control a narrative that cannot be suppressed. “Monarch” may be an example, not a term I ever use unless referencing someone else’s work, as it seems too firmly entrenched w/in conspiratainment 2nd Matrix field.
I never wrote or spoke about Tavistock either, until my own independent research uncovered so much evidence, 100% separate from all the Larouchian, Henry Makow-style citation free claims, or a crap-meister researcher like Danny Estulin (Trine Day again).
Alarm system detail is v. interesting - had not heard before
Yes, agreed that Gunderson must be "handled with care." Any time the clandestine world spills out into the open, disinfo operatives and related spooksters will "show up at the crime scene." I'm beginning to realize that this is part of what the Process Church was about: certainly it was connected to the clandestine world of British intelligence and politics (through leader Mary Ann MacLean, directly connected to the Profumo scandal), but their deliberately inserting themselves into cases of spillover (e.g., the Manson murders) is to a great extent about muddying the water, I believe.
In a previous life, I worked with children in care. That experience affirmed my long-held suspicion that, generally speaking, while those who speak for society claim that said society values children, it really doesn't.
Thanks for reopening this can of worms, Jasun. You know I try to at every reasonable opportunity to do so myself.
Just a little footnote: Convicted pedophile Hollywood director Victor Salva found his victim while working at a daycare in the San Francisco area in the 80s, probably not far from the Presidio, where Col. Michael Aquino was conducting SRA Monarch experiments on children (many of whom were able to describe the inside of his residence in detail and even knew his wife's nickname). How many post-60s "sexually liberated" pedophiles were doing this in that era in particular? In a premium episode (which I can send you), I discuss Salva and his relationship to Francis Ford Coppola., who "discovered" him and defended him at every turn, including suing his victim for lost revenue while the victim had to go over to Coppola's house to record dialogue on the film directed by his abuser, with Coppola telling him that his career is over. Salva molested both of the young boys in the film, CLOWNHOUSE. The older brother is played by Sam Rockwell. The younger boys never worked again; Rockwell is a famous movie star.
def interested; actually liked that movie, Powder, when I saw it, & rec'd to my mother! :/
As both the embedded link ('UNESCO attempt to legalize the sexual "instruction" of infants') & works like, 'The Queering of American Children' (Lancing & Lindsay), demonstrates/describes, if the current trajectory in education/social engineering continues unabated then more likely than not, in the near future, the purveyors and perpetrators of paedophilia will be declassified as paraphilic; and, thereby, deemed no more abnormal than today's boomer man having a sexual desire for an 18 year-old female. RGB-Y4 out!!
I repeat that the only way to counter this is to bring back the DEATH PENALTY and apply it to lot more crimes crooked politicians immediately come to my mind also politicos involved in serious misleading of the public should be included.
no political solutions pls, ESP NOT IN CAPS!